Your background includes Coca-Cola and Danone, two companies that have nothing to do with wine. What did you learn from them that was of value to Gallo, and to your clients today?
O'Brien: Coca-Cola and Danone taught me how to create brand desire, not just brand awareness. At Coke, I learned how to build a cultural movement around a product, which was key in later creating Apothic’s cult-like following. From Danone, specifically through Evian, I gained insight into building brand equity from a commodity—transforming water into a lifestyle symbol. This experience shaped how I positioned wine brands to stand out and transcend their categories. Both experiences taught me that the best brands win by owning a clear idea in the consumer's mind.
Do you think that wine professionals have much to learn from studying brands outside the wine, and indeed the beverage sector?
O'Brien: Absolutely. Beverage brands, especially in RTDs and non-alcoholic spaces, are demonstrating how to create demand through bold positioning and cultural relevance. Take Liquid Death, an irreverent, opinionated water brand that built a tribe in the US through humor and merch, proving again that even a commodity can become a lifestyle. Olipop meanwhile, uses health messaging and digital storytelling to turn soda into a wellness product with a cult following. From other beverages, wine brands can learn the power of strong brand personalities, social engagement, and building direct consumer relationships through digital channels.
Beyond beverage, categories like fashion, tech, and beauty excel at storytelling, community building, and digital engagement—areas where wine often lags. Wine brands can embrace lifestyle marketing, leverage influencers authentically, and build brand tribes beyond the tasting room.
At Gallo, you worked on Apothic and Dark Horse, two quite different brands. Can you talk about Gallo's focus on understanding who is most likely to buy each of its brands?
O'Brien: Gallo succeeds because it puts the consumer at the center of every decision. With Apothic, we zeroed in on a younger, experience-driven consumer looking for bold flavors and edgy branding. For Dark Horse, we targeted confident, value-savvy consumers who wanted premium quality without the premium price tag. The key was deep consumer insight and disciplined brand positioning.
The best testing isn’t a one-time event; it’s an ongoing conversation with your audience.
Gallo tests a lot of concepts that never reach the broader market. Were you involved in any of these, or any other tests? If so, can you talk about them? What kind of testing can/should smaller businesses do?
O'Brien: Yes, I was involved in many concept tests at Gallo, from exploring beer/wine hybrids (which I wouldn’t recommend) to disrupting Chardonnay and attempting to ‘out-Josh Josh’. These tests were valuable not only for identifying opportunities but also for learning what not to pursue. For smaller brands, testing doesn’t require big budgets—social ads can be powerful, not necessarily to sell but to gauge which positioning, headlines, or visuals drive engagement and action. Pop-up tastings give immediate, in-person feedback on emotional reactions and purchase drivers, and email surveys provide fast input from your most engaged audience. Most importantly, smaller brands should focus on testing problems, not just products. It’s about discovering if you’re solving a real consumer tension—because if you are, consumers will show you in their responses. The best testing isn’t a one-time event; it’s an ongoing conversation with your audience.
Meininger's: Very few other wine companies have a fraction of the resources of a company like Gallo. How can they compete?
O'Brien: By focusing on what Gallo can’t do: be hyper-niche, hyper-personal, and hyper-authentic. Smaller brands can win by owning a distinct point of view, engaging directly with their community, and moving faster on trends without needing to please large distributors.
There is a lot of focus on Gen Z right now. Do you think one can treat all young consumers in the same way?
O'Brien: No, you can’t lump all young consumers together. Gen Z is incredibly diverse, and while they care about authenticity and values, they connect with brands in very different ways depending on their interests and communities. A wellness-focused Gen Zer isn’t going to respond to the same message as a festival-goer or a gaming enthusiast. The brands that get it right aren’t just chasing trends—they’re meeting these groups where they are, speaking their language, and showing up in ways that feel real, not forced.
And how about older consumers? Can you tell us about your experience with Clos du Bois?
O'Brien: Older consumers don’t want to be talked down to—they want brands that respect their taste and experience without making them feel old. With Clos du Bois, we didn’t just update the brand; we redefined its relevance for a seasoned wine drinker (whether age 40 or 90) who knows what they like. Our Long Live campaign celebrated their confidence and joy in living life fully, positioning the brand as the wine that pairs perfectly with their well-earned full life. We focused on quality cues and occasion-based marketing that met them where they are—whether hosting friends or dancing with their husbands in the kitchen.
The most successful small brands aren’t the loudest—they’re the clearest.
What – if anything – do DTC businesses have to do differently to prosper?
O'Brien: DTC brands must be more than a sales channel; they need to be a brand experience. That means building an email list that adds value, creating content that educates and entertains, and using data to personalize the customer journey.
Is premiumisation the way forward for the industry?
O'Brien: Premiumisation is a way forward, but not the only way. Consumers are willing to pay more for wine that offers meaning—whether through sustainability, storytelling, or experience. But value-driven brands can win too if they carve out a clear space.
You recommend being 'entertaining' and 'opinionated' – not words most people associate with wine marketing. What does this mean in practice?
O'Brien: It means breaking out of the 'serious and stuffy' mould. Wine brands can be playful with their content, embrace pop culture moments, and share strong opinions that spark conversation. Think of how brands outside of wine disrupt their category—wine needs more of that edge.
Finally, where should wine businesses with limited funds focus their marketing efforts?
O'Brien: Wine businesses with limited funds should start by getting crystal clear on two things: what they stand for and who they’re for. Without that, every marketing dollar is wasted. The most successful small brands aren’t the loudest—they’re the clearest. They know their audience, what problem they solve for them, and how to say it in a way that sticks.
With that foundation, focus on building owned relationships—because if you don’t own your audience, you’re renting it from someone else. Email is the most valuable channel for nurturing your community, but for email to work, you need a reason for people to subscribe. That’s where social content comes in—not bland posts, but content that’s entertaining, opinionated, or useful enough to make people care.
What about SEO? Events?
SEO is valuable for long-term visibility, but it’s a slow burn. For wine brands, real traction often comes from community-driven experiences. Events, even small ones, create emotional connections that no algorithm can replicate. And if events aren’t feasible, live tastings, collaborations, or partner giveaways can spark engagement and introduce your brand to new audiences.
But none of this works without sharp messaging and a clear point of view. Too many small brands jump straight to tactics—social posts, newsletters, ads—without knowing what they’re trying to say or why anyone should care. Nail that first, and every marketing dollar goes further.
Courtney O'Brien is founder of The Outlier Initiative, a US-based boutique marketing consultancy. She offers smaller businesses the expertise and experience she gained while working on brands like Coke Zero, Evian and Gallo's Apothic and Dark Horse.
